newer player building his bag

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Re: newer player building his bag

Postby fireball42 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:54 pm

JR wrote:
fireball42 wrote:


thanks for the articles bent. should be something that improves my game.

JR wrote:At that point in the career it is better to gain skills than more discs. You should be able to learn to throw each of your current discs left, center and straight and out to different distances. Once that is consistent you have a better idea of possible overlapping and gaps in the bag for all conceivable situations.


well i can throw these throws well with my panther and my stingray. being left handed i had to learn to anhy quickly because the courses are generally a little more rhbh friendly. i can also get a decent s-curve with my ray.

i do need to work on these with my teebird, which is newer and i mainly focus on placement and distance.


That is not gaining you any skills throwing discs that tend to go in any direction. Throwing them straight or in the other direction they naturally go out to different distances teaches you skills and just exactly what those discs are capable of. And how hard it is to bend their flight to your needs. If you find you cannot make a disc do something and nothing else in your bag does the same each time you've found a hole that needs to be filled. It might be a skill or equipment issue. Maybe both but i'm leaning toward skills since you have different good discs. Out of those objectives the one that will lower your scores most is acquiring skills and making you consistent with your new found skills. It is harder to achieve than you might think and surely harder than throwing money at a problem buying everything.



i see your point JR. you are correct that i have a lot to work on and I do not expect a new disc to turn me into an overnight pro. in fact most of the time using a new discs makes my game worse because I don't know how to throw it perfectly.

i don't see buying new discs as throwing money away though. part of the fun of this sport for me is experimenting with discs and seeing what works well for me. I like the discs I have but i could easily find another disc that I prefer over them. for instance, I like my panther (it was my first disc), but i feel that I already prefer the stingray for most shots and i trust it more, and i have had it for a few weeks. spending 15 dollars a month to pick up two d-plastic discs is okay to me because it may be the disc that stays in the bag and replaces one that was a go-to, or just as easily it may go on the shelf, or my GF may love it and have it replace her discs.

trying and buying new discs is part of the joy of the game to me.
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Re: newer player building his bag

Postby JR » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:28 am

Few have solid enough form to be able to learn a disc properly in two weeks if they do not live on the course and play a lot with that disc. Not many play one or two disc rounds with new discs. After you know how a disc performs you still need to fit it into the bag and know when to use it and when to pick another disc. Overlapping discs often lead to picking up the wrong tool for the job. The less the bag changes the easier it is to score well. It is even more important to developing players. And not only for confidence reasons.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: newer player building his bag

Postby PMantle » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:00 am

fireball42 wrote:i don't see buying new discs as throwing money away though. part of the fun of this sport for me is experimenting with discs and seeing what works well for me. I like the discs I have but i could easily find another disc that I prefer over them. for instance, I like my panther (it was my first disc), but i feel that I already prefer the stingray for most shots and i trust it more, and i have had it for a few weeks. spending 15 dollars a month to pick up two d-plastic discs is okay to me because it may be the disc that stays in the bag and replaces one that was a go-to, or just as easily it may go on the shelf, or my GF may love it and have it replace her discs.

trying and buying new discs is part of the joy of the game to me.



Totally agree. I do my part to keep disc companies afloat weekly.
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Re: newer player building his bag

Postby JR » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:22 am

9 days short of 11 years in a row of DG and still got 4 discs today after donating well over 100 discs in the last two years and having stacks of discs still :-D And having seen so often what switching discs does to skill progression and scores. Not nice.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: newer player building his bag

Postby fireball42 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:34 am

well JR i took your advice in part while still satisfying my desire for new shiny plastic. I got a 170g Champ Teebird, I am sure it will fly a little different then my 150 DX TB but it should handle the crazy headwind conditions better which I have been dealing with lately. i chose not to buy a completely new mold, and will keep practicing and playing with what i have.
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Re: newer player building his bag

Postby keltik » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:17 pm

Welcome to DGR.

I wouldn't list your girlfriend's discs especially if you don't use them. also I admire your willingness to forgo fast drivers. your reading comprehension level gives me hope for the future.

with all this said I would say your bag should be:

DX Aviar (you can keep the champ but you must learn to love DX type plastic putters)
Stingray
Shark - DX is fine and readily available although you may not like it since you didn't like the Roc
Teebird - the 170g Champ should serve you well in the Windy City.

But if you went just Aviar, Stingray, Teebird you would have a very respectable beginner's bag. and remember to always have fun.
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Re: newer player building his bag

Postby fireball42 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:58 pm

keltik wrote:Welcome to DGR.

I wouldn't list your girlfriend's discs especially if you don't use them. also I admire your willingness to forgo fast drivers. your reading comprehension level gives me hope for the future.

with all this said I would say your bag should be:

DX Aviar (you can keep the champ but you must learn to love DX type plastic putters)
Stingray
Shark - DX is fine and readily available although you may not like it since you didn't like the Roc
Teebird - the 170g Champ should serve you well in the Windy City.

But if you went just Aviar, Stingray, Teebird you would have a very respectable beginner's bag. and remember to always have fun.


Thanks for the welcome keltik. I listed my gfs discs because they are also in my bag and I do practice with them occassionally etc. She really likes the rims of the roc ( I think they are beaded?) And so her magnet and cheetah represent that style.

Why do you recommend the dx aviar over the champ? I lookec at the shark previously, why do you recommend it?
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Re: newer player building his bag

Postby JR » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:27 am

I'm all for breaking frugality when it comes to tried and true easy to use classics. Teebird being one of them. Others on the short list depend on proficiency and power but at new player level Roc, Aviar, Wizard, Sole, Pure, Ion, Anode, P2, Omega, Magnet, Challenger, Judge (new and still having a classic flight that is great), Z Buzz, Coyote, Aurora MS, Axis, Warship, Leopard, XL JLS, Northman, Sidewinders of the latest style, River, TL, TD, all Valkyries except DX are fine and Stags are new but probably just fine.

For more power or harder fades Predator, Wasp, Gator and D Zone (very overstable), Sentinel MF, probably Breaker or the original in quick wearing plastic Ringer,Jokeri, Mace (yeah yeah new yet the performance is not in doubt and the Ghost should also compete with the Rocs), Beast, Wraith, Flow, PD, PD2, Destroyer, and what is the Dynamic discs speed 12 disc named?, Hurricane, Slayer, Halo, Nuke, King, Boss. Not in any particular order.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: newer player building his bag

Postby bents » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:22 am

I agree partly with JR. Getting new discs won't make you much better. When I was new, my throws were so unpredictable that I could barely tell differences between discs. My wacky throws made some discs seem better than others when it was just randomness.

I made the mistake of buying a champion orc when I could only throw about 200 feet. It was so overstable that it started fading immediately out of my hand, and to get it to go anywhere, I had to throw very anhyzer, with some off-axis torque, and this resulted in really bad technique which I had to forget and re-learn after I saw the light and started throwing slower discs.

So make sure your discs aren't too overstable: you should be able to get them to cruise about straight for a while.

But yeah, you're not going to be throwing a 150g dx driver forever, and you might as well get used to the feeling of a beefier disc.

Also, for putters, a lot of people don't like premium plastic (star/champion), and prefer basic plastic (DX/pro) because the premium plastic feels too slippery with the light touch of a putt. The low durability of basic plastic doesn't matter as much with putters
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Re: newer player building his bag

Postby keltik » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:12 pm

fireball42 wrote:
keltik wrote:Welcome to DGR.

I wouldn't list your girlfriend's discs especially if you don't use them. also I admire your willingness to forgo fast drivers. your reading comprehension level gives me hope for the future.

with all this said I would say your bag should be:

DX Aviar (you can keep the champ but you must learn to love DX type plastic putters)
Stingray
Shark - DX is fine and readily available although you may not like it since you didn't like the Roc
Teebird - the 170g Champ should serve you well in the Windy City.

But if you went just Aviar, Stingray, Teebird you would have a very respectable beginner's bag. and remember to always have fun.


Thanks for the welcome keltik. I listed my gfs discs because they are also in my bag and I do practice with them occassionally etc. She really likes the rims of the roc ( I think they are beaded?) And so her magnet and cheetah represent that style.

Why do you recommend the dx aviar over the champ? I lookec at the shark previously, why do you recommend it?


I recommend DX over Champ because of the feel and grip associated with the plastic. Putting is very feel and grip oriented. Higher grade plastics like Champ tend to get slippery when wet. This is manageable when driving or approaching but when you are putting you absolutely have to have a sure grip on the disc. better grip gives your more control and feel on the disc and ultimately more accuracy.

I also recommend DX because it is cheaper. You can also find them used for even cheaper and if you lose them you aren't out very much money.

I recommended the Shark because it is a beadless disc (which you admit you prefer) and it is very easy to learn and to throw. It can be had in DX on the cheap and is still available in Star and soon to be a new Champ blend.
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Re: newer player building his bag

Postby JR » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:53 pm

bents wrote:I agree partly with JR. Getting new discs won't make you much better. When I was new, my throws were so unpredictable that I could barely tell differences between discs. My wacky throws made some discs seem better than others when it was just randomness.

I made the mistake of buying a champion orc when I could only throw about 200 feet. It was so overstable that it started fading immediately out of my hand, and to get it to go anywhere, I had to throw very anhyzer, with some off-axis torque, and this resulted in really bad technique which I had to forget and re-learn after I saw the light and started throwing slower discs.

So make sure your discs aren't too overstable: you should be able to get them to cruise about straight for a while.

But yeah, you're not going to be throwing a 150g dx driver forever, and you might as well get used to the feeling of a beefier disc.

Also, for putters, a lot of people don't like premium plastic (star/champion), and prefer basic plastic (DX/pro) because the premium plastic feels too slippery with the light touch of a putt. The low durability of basic plastic doesn't matter as much with putters


Bad form will lead to incorrect assumptions about your form and how any disc flies. Therefore it is better to learn skills and track how the core discs in your bag change behavior during your growth as a player. And not just from the wear on the disc.

Don't knock the light discs. I got a D4 FR 173 to 430'ish yesterday in below freezing conditions and still i like to use Blizzard 13x Boss and 14x Quasar. Although both are challenged by the D4 :-D Light discs for life because the older you get the more you will need the light discs.

After 11 years of playing but only about four-five years of reading here i'm still repairing off form so you must not underestimate the dangers of learning an improper form then needing to break it and then stomp it back to the ground when it rears up its ugly head again and again and learning a new form and solidifying it. Trust me old form will resurface, It has for most if not for everyone.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: newer player building his bag

Postby bents » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:00 am

JR wrote:After 11 years of playing but only about four-five years of reading here i'm still repairing off form so you must not underestimate the dangers of learning an improper form then needing to break it and then stomp it back to the ground when it rears up its ugly head again and again and learning a new form and solidifying it. Trust me old form will resurface, It has for most if not for everyone.


Here, here. I thought I'd beat my OAT issues months ago. And they yesterday it happened over and over again! I was planting my foot too far left causing balance issues. You pointed it out in a video of mine months ago, and I fixed it temporarily, but it's back.
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Re: newer player building his bag

Postby fireball42 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:16 pm

I got my new champ teebird, and i hope i can at least get a few throws in the field nearby tommorrow.

now that i think i have a good bag set up, my next step is to make a video of my technique and post it for critique. unfortunately finals time is upon me, and for any other unfortunate souls that have been in law school, finals require 95% of my life when they come into season, so the video will probably have to wait. :(
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Re: newer player building his bag

Postby fireball42 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:38 pm

i was at a disc shop recently and feeling some putters. i put my hands on a JK pro aviar-x and i absolutely feel in love with it. it is soft and super grippy, while not having a weird shape or being too different than my champ aviar. it does have a bead but, it is much more subtle compared to the magnets bead.

i ordered a pair of them (in pink of course) and plan to have them replace my champ aviar.
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