Best use of time

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Best use of time

Postby bsnone1 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:33 am

So I'm fairly new to the game, roughly been playing for 4 months. I posted a video a few weeks ago and got some excellent feedback that I'm working with concerning my form. Mainly still working on getting the nose of the disc down consistently.

So I get roughly an hour to two hours per week where I have enough free time to hit the field and do some practice throwing. Basically I've been spending my time working on the "working from the hit forward (backword?)" first drill and then adding one step. And then working on full shots so that I can adjust to the grip that I'm trying out (I played for 3 months without ever having the thumb forward).

When I'm working on full shots at this point all I'm trying to do it basically hit my target - I stand at one end of the soccer field and try and land around the goal (or in the goal) of the other end. I'm not spending anytime on shaping shots. Should I, at this stage be putting time into hyzer, anny, flip hyzer, s-curve etc? Or should I just be worried about creating something repeatable and later work on all of the shape shots.

We have two "worthwhile" courses in Tucson, one of which is fairly short but requires more touch/lines. I can get around that course in +3 to +5. The other course is substantially longer (2 holes +500 ft, 1 hole +800 ft) but is fairly wide open - that is you really need to bomb to score well which I get around in +15 to +20. During the winter the longer course is playable (it floods half the year) so my friends and I end up playing there 90% of the time, hence I've been trying to work on adding distance without thinking about shot lines.

Since working my grip moe "thumb forward" I've found that my "misses" have gone from the skied hyzerish shot to a pulled anhyzer (LHBH) and my discs that used to S-curve and mainly pulling left. I've put away my Katana and wraith and have come back to throwing mainly the valk, beast and leapord off of the tee and even going to the buzzz for many shorter holes.

I guess I've rambled on quite a bit here, what I'm really wondering is whether my practice time should be spend more on building power and then working in finesse or if I should be working the opposite or just do both at the same time. Also, can someone explain what exactly the flip hyzer shot looks like? Am I to understand that it starts hyzer and then flips anny?
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Re: Best use of time

Postby Stringbean » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:03 pm

I would recommend working on both at the same time. Your form may change drastically but developing a feel for how to throw an anny, hyzer, hyzer flip, etc. will still retain its value regardless of how much your form changes. I made the mistake of only focusing on power while thinking... why should I practice these other things when my form is going to change anyway? In reality, learning the other shots will actually help to increase your distance because the other shots require timing, disc angle/orientation, footwork, etc.

It may also be a good idea to develop your sidearm. Its easier to learn both from the start rather than learn one and then years later start working on the other (kind of like learning a 2nd language).

Regarding the hyzer flip, generally you are trying to start out on a hyzer angle and put enough torque on the disc to have it flip flat and continue straight. With a lot of torque or a very understable disc, you can have it flip flat and continue to turn anhyzer. But for the purpose of learning, start by trying to get the disc to flip flat.
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Re: Best use of time

Postby bsnone1 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:37 pm

So I've seen grips for sidearm throws and I've worked the hammer pound a bit (however I've jumped pretty much into applying it to the backhand shot - perhaps this was a mistake...) but I feel like for every 50 backhand throws I make maybe 2 come out flat with a nice smooth flight. 90% of my forhand throws come out majorly wobbly (I believe this is what is reffered to as OAT?). Any suggestions on how to produce the "flat" sidearm throw? I'd love to have it in my bag for more finesse shots and shots I need to move right to left (remember, I'm a lefty...) The other thing I run into with the forhand throw is my arm kills after 30-40 shots - perhaps this is another sign that I'm doing something wrong. Other then continuing to work with the secret technique, any suggestions on developing the forhand shot other than, say, go to the park and work on it...?
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Re: Best use of time

Postby Stringbean » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:00 pm

Honestly, I am not good with the forehand for the reason stated above but the same concept applies in that you want to feel the weight of the disc trailing behind your forearm before you accelerate. Pretend that you are a second baseman trying to turn a double play with a runner coming at you. Follow through palm up.

Stable drivers will be easier to throw without wobble. Start out with a Wraith or Teebird and once you can throw those without wobble, move on to more understable discs. Then slower discs.
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Re: Best use of time

Postby bsnone1 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:39 am

So the time spent in the field over the past several weeks has been really helpful. Taking the time to work different lines has helped improve timing and build confidence on the course. I played a dynamic disc event on Saturday - had to use their discs and managed to park their midrange on 3 straight holes for birdies - I've only ever done that once before. First toss was a soft hyzer, second was dead straight and the last was an easy turn over - all of which I was confident that I could execute.

I've also seen my distance start to improve little by little each week. Getting past the goal posts more regularly at the local soccer field is a nice feeling. I'd been discing down for the past several weeks hoping to learn to control fairway drivers and build strength/form with these discs before jumping back to my distance drivers (if you'd even call them that today) Essentially what I learned in my session last night where I brought everything that I own up to a speed 10 is that I am much more consistent with my Teebirds/Eagles/Gazelles/Leopards/Cyclones/Shocks than I am with my Valks/Beasts/Saints/NukeSS/Katanas. Not only that but more often than not the fairway drivers go further.

I still have a tendency to occasionally grip lock and pull my discs, however, not nearly as off target as they once were (they usually stay within the lines of the field now) but man they usually go 40-50 ft further. I need to find a way to harness that power but on my intended line...

I'm also wondering if throwing the more stable/overstable discs are masking some OAT issues... The Teebirds and Eagles fly really nicely, the leopard goes just about wherever I put it as do my Rocs and Fugitive, however, I picked up a Z comet and really struggle to throw that disc - from what I've read on here it may be an OAT issue? The comet just turns over and crashes - I struggle to throw a nice like with the disc at all... My DX valks that are beat in need to hyzer flipped but the champion throws a nice S curve more often than not (just not as far as my Teebird goes in general...)

Nice to see improvements. Now to get a basket and learn to putt...
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Re: Best use of time

Postby JR » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:27 am

Comets don't like to be squeezed hard other than perhaps with the index finger and the thumb late in the throw when the disc is pivoting. Comets also like a slowly starting arm pull that accelerates smoothly. Not a hard yank at the beginning and the arm must move on the same plane in the follow through for a while as it was on in the throw. Comets do turn normally in a headwind it is to be expected. so you need another disc or good guess work in applying compensating hyzer angle.

I'd start training for the FH low arm speed with good snap by locking the elbow to above the hip from the start through the reach back (right side points at the target for a flat LHFH reach back) to when the disc is closer to the target than the left side. Only then should you apply arm power and smoothly and under powered at first. You'd be surprised how much distance you can get from using the legs and body almost exclusively.

Palm up after the FH throw is essential but so is using very little arm and a lot of wrist. You can get pretty far without needing to throw hard with the disc being at your side in the reach back and the legs, hips and shoulders doing 80 % of the work and arm not moving that hard but snapping the wrist hard and trying to stop the wrist as quickly as possible.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Best use of time

Postby cubeofsoup » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:12 am

Here is some video of great forehand players including the DGR regular Mark Ellis:

forehand clinic with mark ellis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOECjLjhiTI
jeremy koling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmwkYolbxXE
ricky wysocki: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1esnjdJdfXM
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Re: Best use of time

Postby bsnone1 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:30 am

Thanks! Forehand is still a great mystery for me - I have at least been able to work a thumber into my bag o shots. I really have to just bear down and use my field time on the forehand...
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Re: Best use of time

Postby JR » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:37 pm

Check out youtube Tali Open 2010 final part 1 on channel lcgm8 for Ville Piippo driving on the first hole i think. The trouble is that it is hole 1 on the regular course and at least on other rounds it wasn't so my memory might be off. Anyway that guy has thrown 500' FH and the drive is in some nasty woods. You should check him out to see the difference to another probably 500' bomber Koling. Ville is a power thrower being a former javelin thrower and Jeremy is as smooth as they come.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Best use of time

Postby bsnone1 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:42 am

So I've spent the last week with my nose fairly deep in the maxing out at 300 thread... Really great stuff in that thread and hopefully will really help things out going forward. One thing I've noticed was the explanations of the towel drill were made so much clearer for me in that thread - I was constantly whipping the towel around and not forward and while it is VERY frustrating, every 15-20 times I try and snap I get that powerful "heavy" forward shooting towel snap. It is SUCH a different feeling and I'm guessing that the feeling of snap is fairly consistent with the feeling that "heavy" towel makes? Am I on point here? I can't believe how awful my timing has been...

Just fixing little things here and there and hitting the field 2 times a week has helped a bunch though, I've seen my power slowly increase bit by bit to where 260 with a Teebird was a good throw to breaking 300 very regularly with Teebirds/Eagles/Cyclones. I brought my valkyries and orions out for the first time this week and was getting them out to about 330. I feel like if I can emulate that "heavy" feeling of the towel to my disc throws, big jumps are in store for me distance wise.

I've had several players at leagues (guys who hit 400 no problem) tell me to "just snap it! Your form is great, you just gotta snap it at the end!!" Here's hoping I can find that feeling.
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Re: Best use of time

Postby JR » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:19 am

Not many have been able to transfer the towel drill into the throw right away so i'd keep at it. If you feel weight in the fingers you need not worry you'd be on the right track then. If not you need to change something because you throw far enough to make the feeling easy enough to detect in a successful throw with enough repetitions. You can feel it most of the time once you've first recognized the feeling.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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