Grip Technique

Information, Questions, Discussion about Throwing Mechanics and Technique

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Postby Steady 26542 » Fri May 09, 2008 7:40 am

CJ1998 wrote:Photobucket has a utility on the website that allows you to resize images. You can save it as a copy and do what you want with it.


I will have to check it out. Thanks.
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Postby Steady 26542 » Fri May 09, 2008 8:12 am

garublador wrote:Don't worry, you'll see the benifit. Without getting the thumb forward you won't be able to focus the pressure from your index finger correctly and will miss out on a lot of "smash factor."


I went out yesterday to practice grips and throws. I moved the thumb forward a bit and was still able to keep the disc parallel to the forearm. It seems to keep the nose down a bit more than what I'm used to. Not a bad thing as long as I know that is what it will do. I've never tried to use "wrist extension" so I'm not sure how that is suppose to feel. I try rolling (cocking?) the wrist a little and then let it uncock as in the video with the "fling". The only thing I noticed was that I lost distance and accuracy. I know that isn't what the result is supposed to be but I'm not sure how to correct it. I'm even more frustrated today, but I'll keep on trying. I don't feel the "hit." What's the best angle for me to take a video so you guys can ridicule me some more. :lol: I'm kidding, your comments are invaluable. I just wish I could feel the hit just once...
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Postby JR » Fri May 09, 2008 10:21 am

Steady 26542 wrote:
garublador wrote:Don't worry, you'll see the benifit. Without getting the thumb forward you won't be able to focus the pressure from your index finger correctly and will miss out on a lot of "smash factor."


I went out yesterday to practice grips and throws. I moved the thumb forward a bit and was still able to keep the disc parallel to the forearm. It seems to keep the nose down a bit more than what I'm used to. Not a bad thing as long as I know that is what it will do. I've never tried to use "wrist extension" so I'm not sure how that is suppose to feel. I try rolling (cocking?) the wrist a little and then let it uncock as in the video with the "fling". The only thing I noticed was that I lost distance and accuracy. I know that isn't what the result is supposed to be but I'm not sure how to correct it. I'm even more frustrated today, but I'll keep on trying. I don't feel the "hit." What's the best angle for me to take a video so you guys can ridicule me some more. :lol: I'm kidding, your comments are invaluable. I just wish I could feel the hit just once...


Feeling the hit can get easier without the disc in your hand standing on a carpet without shoes. Make sure the carpet is fastened so that you don't slip. Do an x step stepping only on the front part of the balls of your feet. After the plant step lands kick hard forward with the left leg adding sideways push towards the end of the pivot. Yank your hips and shoulders as hard as you can. Proper form isn't necessary for the feeling. Speed is what you should concentrate on.

Make sure beforehand that you've got room or you'll break bones. I've got a 6" diameter mark in my hand that is 6 days old from fumbling at work. Thank god for braces or I would've broken bones probably. Soft tissue damage would've been certain without the brace.

Swoosh your arm through as fast as you can. If you can't feel wrist flexing back loosen upper arm totally and forearm to max 10 % tension. If that doesn't do it move to starting with elbow lead and as the fingers pass the heart extend the arm straight out away from your body and try to move it to the right fast by the shoulder. If you can't feel the forces and the hit something is wrong big time. Because you should look like a kung fu movie star in speed of the motion of the arm.

You can also try to stiffen the right leg into place after the plant for even faster pivoting.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Postby Steady 26542 » Sat May 10, 2008 10:26 pm

JR wrote:Feeling the hit can get easier without the disc in your hand standing on a carpet without shoes. Make sure the carpet is fastened so that you don't slip. Do an x step stepping only on the front part of the balls of your feet. After the plant step lands kick hard forward with the left leg adding sideways push towards the end of the pivot. Yank your hips and shoulders as hard as you can. Proper form isn't necessary for the feeling. Speed is what you should concentrate on.

Make sure beforehand that you've got room or you'll break bones. I've got a 6" diameter mark in my hand that is 6 days old from fumbling at work. Thank god for braces or I would've broken bones probably. Soft tissue damage would've been certain without the brace.

Swoosh your arm through as fast as you can. If you can't feel wrist flexing back loosen upper arm totally and forearm to max 10 % tension. If that doesn't do it move to starting with elbow lead and as the fingers pass the heart extend the arm straight out away from your body and try to move it to the right fast by the shoulder. If you can't feel the forces and the hit something is wrong big time. Because you should look like a kung fu movie star in speed of the motion of the arm.

You can also try to stiffen the right leg into place after the plant for even faster pivoting.


I've printed out your instructions. I'll give them a try. Thanks. :)
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Postby TheMarz » Sun May 11, 2008 10:44 am

So i believe that i got my first real "rip" this weekend while walking back to the parking lot. It felt a ton different and sounded different. That was Friday and played close to 5 rounds this weekend with nothing like the feel/sound of the one throw.

At least I'm getting somewhere.
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Postby bcsst26 » Mon May 12, 2008 5:25 am

Yeah that one time will keep you going. I had one of those times about a month ago. I ripped a drive for about 400 feet. Couldn't believe it. The distance the feel of it ripping out of my hands. I haven't repeated the distance yet but I am throwing further with less effort and I am starting to tell when the disc slips, when it rips, and when my weight isn't forward enough. Now I need to put it all together for a full round. :roll:
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Postby black udder » Mon May 12, 2008 12:32 pm

Speaking of "the hit" and kung fu. I was working with jack cooksey (master's distance champ) and without a disc in his hand, he would stand still and go through the throwing motion. At the "hit" you could hear the air pop as he extended. Just like when somebody punches air in a kung fu flick. It was crazy.

With the wrist extension, you want to pull the disc across your chest and as you get across your right pec, in order to keep the disc close, your wrist will curl intowards your chest. As you extend the elbow after that, the wrist will open up and at the end of the "hit" it will go straight/a little beyond straight.

If your grip isn't too tight, it's the point you want the disc to pop out. You can stand still and throw putters 50' or so to get the feel of the pop. Then, when the disc slips, you'll know that it's out early.

If you try and uncurl your wrist yourself, you can reduce the spin and hit and end up with a softer throw because you remove the momentum from your throw.
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Postby Steady 26542 » Fri May 16, 2008 9:15 am

black udder wrote:If you try and uncurl your wrist yourself, you can reduce the spin and hit and end up with a softer throw because you remove the momentum from your throw.


Ah... That's what I've been focusing in on. Trying to uncurl my wrist. So the hit just happens? You don't necessarily try to uncurl the wrist, you just let it happen? I wish I could feel it just once... I'll keep working at it.
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Postby Timko » Fri May 16, 2008 9:30 am

Yes, the wrist just uncurls. This is super important for getting over 350'.
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Postby masterbeato » Fri May 16, 2008 11:13 pm

Your wrist curls and uncurls rapidly at the end of the pull through anyways.
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Postby black udder » Sat May 17, 2008 12:17 am

Steady 26542 wrote:
black udder wrote:If you try and uncurl your wrist yourself, you can reduce the spin and hit and end up with a softer throw because you remove the momentum from your throw.


Ah... That's what I've been focusing in on. Trying to uncurl my wrist. So the hit just happens? You don't necessarily try to uncurl the wrist, you just let it happen? I wish I could feel it just once... I'll keep working at it.


Best thing I can suggest is get a handful of putters (don't go far to fetch) and stand still. Don't go for distance, just feel. Just pull across your chest with the 100% focus on keeping the disc close to your chest and letting your wrist curl in toward you as you get to your right pec. As you extend, your wrist will uncoil and you'll feel the pop. You might end up with some crazy release points, but if you get a stack of 5-10 putters/mids you'll feel it with a few pretty soon. Once you do it, you'll start to get the hang of how to reproduce it.

For me, I can get it standing still, but when I x-step, I lose it.

You *have* to be relaxed to get this. It's really your arm acting just like a whip.

You can practice in the house, just open your hand and leave it loose, then pull it across your chest and let the wrist curl in, then as you extend pop out. If you do it right, you'll hear your wrist making the "whoosh" sound just like the kung fu flicks. You need to have some speed as well.
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Postby Bradley Walker » Sat May 17, 2008 7:13 am

What has been working for me is visualizing the discs going twice as fast as my arm speed.

All of my concentration is towards trying to achieve such a radical disc pivot and wrist extension that the disc leaves my hand at twice my arm speed (this means that the extension itself provides equal addition of power ot the arm speed). This puts all of my focus on the pivot and extension (the little arc) and takes all of the emphasis off of trying to develop more arm speed. Frankly, in the quest to achieve more arm speed you can blow right past a good extension.

I noticed that after my back started feeling better my hit explosion was leaving me. When I could barely move, I was getting an incredible hit because there was no emphasis whatsoever on throwing harder or faster. As my back started to improve, my effort went up and my pop went down. Luckily, I was smart enough to a step back and realize that only through more understanding of the extension would i ever get better, so I went back to that as my sole focus.

To keep me on track I use this arm=x disc=2x visualization and it keeps all of my focus on the X created by extension. No matter what arm speed (arc one) I put in must be doubled by the pivot and extension (arc two).

While this is impossible, it is a great visualization...
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Postby Dale » Mon May 19, 2008 7:29 am

I'm a bit confused by this visualization:

It's really your arm acting just like a whip.


I think the reason why my wrist does not uncurl much like the tip of a whip is that I am producing too much force with my arm. My wrist tends to stay curled unless I make it uncurl. I can get the whip motion if I slow my arm down, but when I approach 60-70% driving force I lose the wrist snap effect.

Do you pull through the hit with continuous force?

Excuse the newbie questions, but I'm trying to put all of this together to create good habits in the development of my backhand. I learned from forehand throwing that the wrist snap produces quite a lot of the power of the throw, but I have to consciously make it snap. I cannot imagine that any backhander is getting wrist snap unless they are applying enough power to that snap to overcome the inertia of the forward motion of the arm.

I think I will take the advice of black udder and practice at 40-50% power until the wrist snap becomes consistent, then gradually add a bit of power.
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Postby JR » Mon May 19, 2008 9:08 am

Youneed to start the arm pull slowly like with 50 % power max preferably less as the discs rear passes the right pec and then shoot the elbow forward with great acceleration. For a long throw. And first getting the feeling of a hit. To be more accurate the tug of the acceleration in the muscles and tendons. It doesn't happen without a lot of speed and late acceleration of the arm. The wrist may move correctly at lower power levels too you just lose the physical tug but you may be able to feel the less obvious unbending of the wrist. To me it's certainly a lot less feelable than a heavy acceleration tug on the muscles.

I think I too need to try to improve my wrist action by starting with 50 % too. Especially now that my ankle is achy.

Dale wrote:I'm a bit confused by this visualization:

It's really your arm acting just like a whip.


I think the reason why my wrist does not uncurl much like the tip of a whip is that I am producing too much force with my arm. My wrist tends to stay curled unless I make it uncurl. I can get the whip motion if I slow my arm down, but when I approach 60-70% driving force I lose the wrist snap effect.

Do you pull through the hit with continuous force?

Excuse the newbie questions, but I'm trying to put all of this together to create good habits in the development of my backhand. I learned from forehand throwing that the wrist snap produces quite a lot of the power of the throw, but I have to consciously make it snap. I cannot imagine that any backhander is getting wrist snap unless they are applying enough power to that snap to overcome the inertia of the forward motion of the arm.

I think I will take the advice of black udder and practice at 40-50% power until the wrist snap becomes consistent, then gradually add a bit of power.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Postby JR » Mon May 19, 2008 9:17 am

You need to start the arm pull slowly like with 50 % power max preferably less as the discs rear passes the right pec and then shoot the elbow forward with great acceleration. For a long throw. And first getting the feeling of a hit. To be more accurate the tug of the acceleration in the muscles and tendons. It doesn't happen without a lot of speed and late acceleration of the arm. The wrist may move correctly at lower power levels too you just lose the physical tug but you may be able to feel the less obvious unbending of the wrist. To me it's certainly a lot less feelable than a heavy acceleration tug on the muscles.

I think I too need to try to improve my wrist action by starting with 50 % too. Especially now that my ankle is achy.

A secret to the wrist action matching the arm speed of a backhand throw is that the wrist does unbend without conscious effort of moving the wrist forward. That is if you want to throw that way. There is a way of unbending the wrist forward with conscious effort too. too little experience to say which works best in the long run or a combination of a little bit of both ways. The way that the wrist can unbend without conscious effort is to allow the elbow to extend straight. Especially if you manage to have your chest square to the target with the hips too you've created huge amount of momentum and where's it gonna go? To unbend the only body part you have that is still pliable: The unbent wrist. This late unbending of the wrist lasts probably less than a hundreth of a second but moves forward quite a bit.

Look at the angle change the disc makes in the wrist unbending back to front in slow motion without a throw and you'll notice that you'll be putting a lot of spin on the disc. You could actually calculate roughly what the RPM of the disc will be for any given amount of arc of the disc spin happening during the wrist unbending if you know the duration of the wrist unbending and the turning rate of the lower parts of your body turning to the right. Leg pivot, hips and shoulders and arm movement to the right at the shoulder socket.

Dale wrote:I'm a bit confused by this visualization:

It's really your arm acting just like a whip.


I think the reason why my wrist does not uncurl much like the tip of a whip is that I am producing too much force with my arm. My wrist tends to stay curled unless I make it uncurl. I can get the whip motion if I slow my arm down, but when I approach 60-70% driving force I lose the wrist snap effect.

Do you pull through the hit with continuous force?

Excuse the newbie questions, but I'm trying to put all of this together to create good habits in the development of my backhand. I learned from forehand throwing that the wrist snap produces quite a lot of the power of the throw, but I have to consciously make it snap. I cannot imagine that any backhander is getting wrist snap unless they are applying enough power to that snap to overcome the inertia of the forward motion of the arm.

I think I will take the advice of black udder and practice at 40-50% power until the wrist snap becomes consistent, then gradually add a bit of power.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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