IS PDGA LEADERSHIP IN TOUCH WITH THE COMMON PLAYER?

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IS PDGA LEADERSHIP IN TOUCH WITH THE COMMON PLAYER?

Postby chukar » Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:23 pm

The following is an excerpt from the current Disk Golf Magazine's Editorial (official publication of the PDGA):

“Speaking of dreams. I had one recently that has haunted me and I’d like to share it with you because I think it’s interesting, if not somewhat provocative.

More than once, when talking to folks about disc golf, I’ll hear from ball golfers that, Well, yeah, but you’re not putting into a little hole. More than one ball golfer has looked down his or her nose at me because they believe that our baskets are way too easy.

I agree. I know a few dozen disc golfers who have had more than 100 aces. I know very few ball golfers who have recorded more than one or two aces. It’s just much, much harder to score an ace in ball golf. While I think that gives disc golf a certain attractiveness—I mean, who doesn’t like to hit an ace!—it also holds us back. It keeps us in the game world rather than the sport world.

So my dream presented this solution. A much smaller basket. Virtually Mini sized, but modified to handle a full-sized disc after it’s traveled a few hundred feet; I don’t want to prevent aces, just make them more rare. So the new basket is perhaps lower, smaller, but noticeably beefier. The more I have been thinking about this, the more I like it, the more I think it makes sense. Yes, I know your scores will go up but we’ll also make aces and when we do, wow, we’ll have really done something. This is, of course, my own particular fantasy and in no way involves the PDGA; I’m out on a limb with this but I think it’s worth discussing.”


The above was written by Randy Michael Signor who is the Editor. I have a few questions of Mr. Signor which I will post here as there is no option to respond to the article via the magazine.

Mr. Signor:

What percentage of players have scored more than 100 aces as compared to those of us who have one or two or are still looking for our first?
If a few dozen as you say (I know of none) and assuming that everyone of them is a PDGA member (20,000 members) that would be about 0.02% which leads to the next question.

Does your mag purport to represent the majority of Disk Golf players? If so, how can it have an editor who represents an elite few and fosters “dreams” that would discourage current and potential future players?

How do you have the audacity to call our SPORT a “game”?

Who gives a bleep what the “ball” golfers say or think?

You say that your “dream” does not represent the PDGA position BUT with you being one of a handful of PDGA employees what can we expect?

How can you say your “dream” is “worth discussing” when you have the only soapbox?

I for one will not be renewing my membership in the PDGA until they get an Editor who represents the majority of the players. Cut his limb!
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Re: IS PDGA LEADERSHIP IN TOUCH WITH THE COMMON PLAYER?

Postby iacas » Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:41 pm

On the other hand… at least he knows how to spell "disc".

BTW, he's not in the "PDGA leadership."

P.S. The basket is too easy in disc golf. On that topic I agree with him.
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Re: IS PDGA LEADERSHIP IN TOUCH WITH THE COMMON PLAYER?

Postby chukar » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:05 pm

Yeah, my error on the spelling.
He my not be in the leadership but he's in with them.
I guess it is the "Professional" Disc Golf Ass.; maybe I and 99% of the dues paying amateurs are in the wrong club.
I don't mind the Pros having their little baskets or mail slots or whatever as long as they foot the bill and leave the existing baskets alone.
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Re: IS PDGA LEADERSHIP IN TOUCH WITH THE COMMON PLAYER?

Postby Star Shark » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:33 pm

The 'common' disc golf has no idea there IS a pdga. Those of us who pay attention to tourneys and post online are in the small minority OF the small minority.
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Re: IS PDGA LEADERSHIP IN TOUCH WITH THE COMMON PLAYER?

Postby iacas » Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 am

chukar wrote:He my not be in the leadership but he's in with them.


No he isn't.

chukar wrote:I don't mind the Pros having their little baskets or mail slots or whatever as long as they foot the bill and leave the existing baskets alone.


I disagree with you, and I'm just an amateur. The disc golf basket is too easy.
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Re: IS PDGA LEADERSHIP IN TOUCH WITH THE COMMON PLAYER?

Postby chukar » Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:59 pm

iacas wrote:No he isn't.
I say: Yes he is. How do you think he got his job?

iacas wrote: I disagree with you, and I'm just an amateur. The disc golf basket is too easy.
I said: You can have your baskets if I can keep mine. You would replace mine with yours.

By chance are you a member of the anti-gun crowd?
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Re: IS PDGA LEADERSHIP IN TOUCH WITH THE COMMON PLAYER?

Postby iacas » Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:19 pm

chukar wrote:iacas wrote:No he isn't.
I say: Yes he is. How do you think he got his job?

He's not. He's the editor in chief, he's not in a leadership position with the PDGA. These are facts you can look up for yourself.

chukar wrote:iacas wrote: I disagree with you, and I'm just an amateur. The disc golf basket is too easy.
I said: You can have your baskets if I can keep mine. You would replace mine with yours.

I would. The current disc golf baskets are too easy. Scores are too low. It's goofy.

That's an opinion, and one in which I'm not particularly interested in debating with you. You've had your butt handed to you at DGCR from what I've seen.

chukar wrote:By chance are you a member of the anti-gun crowd?

I own 20 guns, so… no.
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Re: IS PDGA LEADERSHIP IN TOUCH WITH THE COMMON PLAYER?

Postby chukar » Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:56 pm

"That's an opinion, and one in which I'm not particularly interested in debating with you. You've had your butt handed to you at DGCR from what I've seen."
You are entitled to your opinion even if it is wrong. I don't consider the off topic comments by the self-elected "elite" as having had my butt handed to me but once again you are entitled..... once you get past the jabs over spelling and the troll comments which I don't know if are directed at me or the editor the thread does have some interesting discussion. After reading comments I think I will have a better chance of my first ace someday than you will have of playing the small baskets.
"I own 20 guns, so...no"
The "I don't want it so no one needs it" attitude you have on the baskets just fits in so well with the anti-gun logic....We might actually agree on something.
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Re: IS PDGA LEADERSHIP IN TOUCH WITH THE COMMON PLAYER?

Postby iacas » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:48 pm

chukar wrote:You are entitled to your opinion even if it is wrong. I don't consider the off topic comments by the self-elected "elite" as having had my butt handed to me but once again you are entitled..... once you get past the jabs over spelling and the troll comments which I don't know if are directed at me or the editor the thread does have some interesting discussion. After reading comments I think I will have a better chance of my first ace someday than you will have of playing the small baskets.


Opinions can't be wrong. Facts can be - like the fact that the editor of the magazine is not in the PDGA's "leadership."

What have you said of substance? You're late to this party, and opinions and thoughts have been laid out. I've heard the arguments for and against smaller targets, and I am firmly (as of now) in the "smaller baskets" camp. Disc golf is too easy, IMO.

chukar wrote:The "I don't want it so no one needs it" attitude you have on the baskets just fits in so well with the anti-gun logic....We might actually agree on something.


I don't care. It's a complete non-sequitur. And I never said "I don't want it so no one needs it," or anything that should be taken as such.
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Re: IS PDGA LEADERSHIP IN TOUCH WITH THE COMMON PLAYER?

Postby eg37167 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:22 am

I think DG has multiple tiers of players.
DG pros in the community that think the basket is ridiculously easy and are sensitive to derogatory comments from those in other sports.
Tourney playing AMs who also think the target is perhaps too easy but are not pros and don't care so much about what other sport players may think but care about the purity of the game.
Casual players who enjoy playing but are not so into tournaments and serious play but don't want to cut the other thousands of occasional players out by making it too difficult.
There could be other strata in there also, but I fall in the latter. I'm not going to criticize anybody in another group for their opinion. But I think we do need to consider the impacts of any change like this. Coudl we only make it for Pro courses? Qualifying tournaments?
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Re: IS PDGA LEADERSHIP IN TOUCH WITH THE COMMON PLAYER?

Postby money 21 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:46 am

My vote is leave the baskets alone. Disc golf has the miss furtune of of having the word golf in its name so gets compared to ball golf all the time. So it is easier to get an ace in disc golf so what. we canget really low scores so what. the best players in the sport still stand out and beat the average plays by alot. I say if you want scores to go up add more mandos and out of bounds.
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Re: IS PDGA LEADERSHIP IN TOUCH WITH THE COMMON PLAYER?

Postby aerodriver » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:39 pm

I think aces are a result of hole designs, not of the ease or size of the basket. We can begin by thinking of the varying hole lengths and pars and visible and not-so-visible lines on certain holes. Most would consider a hole with a visible line to the basket being not more than 250' ace-able. Now this line of visibility varies for different players, some see it and some can hit it, some see it and can't hit it, and some simply do not have the skill or know-how to work that hole. It could be a hyzer route, anhyzer/turnover rout, or a tunnel shot. These are just a few of the possibilities for this hole. It still takes skill and know-how of the player to determine the line, disc, and power requirements of the shot they are trying to perform. I do not fault the size of the basket if they do not ace it, birdie it, or circle-5 it. It is the skill the player has that determines the outcome of the shot. This includes pro players playing at white or red tees for aces. The ace is not qualitative in and of itself, the hole should always be taken into consideration.

Unlike ball golf, we have a heavier set of obstacles that can challenge us. While both sports involve a lot of proper mechanics, timing, and muscle memory, there is something to be said about a sand bunker versus an uphill 40 foot putt with trees guarding the basket and branches in the way of the possible line you can take to the basket.

I think we have an equal amount of fluke aces as ball golf has flue hole-in-ones. We also have a similar amount of highly skilled players that can select their shot so wisely as to create the proper scenario for an ace or hole-in-one. When I saw MikeC's ace video at Winthrop Gold, I did not think it was the basket that caused the ace. I was drawn to his skill that allowed him to dial in that shot with that disc given the conditions he was playing in.

My vote is also to leave the baskets alone, if not in the interest of the points I mentioned above, then in the interest of not having so many great courses, great people, and near-new equipment being wasted in a short few years because we deem the sport too easy.
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