midrange discs over-rated ??

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Postby J-Man » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:34 pm

Probably the disc I use the least is my Buzzz. I agree with you Matt, I can get most places with a slow X Pred or my Soft Mag, a Challenger if I need more hyzer. But I wouldn't go without my CryZtal Buzzz. There are shots, or days and times when I gotta have that disc, and I know what it will do. I don't throw anything too hard, so some days the Buzzz is just right. Whatever works right?
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Postby matt » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:42 pm

i can throw flat-top large diameter mids 350 but its easier to do that with a slower fairway. its all about the lip design. rocs are blunt like putters and it takes room and height or 100% power to get a roc out there. id rather throw a cheetah 75% cuz its easier. anything faster like an eagle or teebird and i would agree completely with using a midrange cuz they behave drastically different.
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Postby tushamajig13 » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:57 pm

personally, i cant live without midranges (rocs in my case, though i have tried almost all mids). for my game, I have developed a strategy where unless i am putting or really close to the basket (<150'), I am always trying to throw with the same form and power. Using this strategy, in order to get my shots to land within a reasonable distance relative to where i want them, I need those mids for when my wizards are too short and my leopards are too long. by developing this game plan i have found that my form developed much faster and my consistency went way up. Now granted, for a 275' shots, i could easily take out my new champ leopard and throw it 70% and watch it fade and skip, or i could take out a beat roc, throw it with the 85-90% power with which i throw all my shots, and watch it do exactly what i wanted with no adjustment. Adjusting to throwing a disc longer or shorter than it is intended created lots of consistency issues for me.

Also, i think one of the very important and very overlooked aspects of the argument FOR midranges is the added stability in the wind. Again, throwing 275', you could throw a gazelle 70% or a roc 90%. In this case, with no wind, they will fly similarly and land pretty close to one another. Add a 15 mph wind, and the midrange will stay MUCH more consistent and predictable than the fairway driver. the slower fairway drivers (leopard, gazelle, cheetah) just cant fight that kind of wind, no matter what the weight or how new they are (i have found this to be the case from my own experience with all 3 listed above). Stable midranges (rocs, wasps, sentinels...especially sentinels) have the wind-fighting ability to stay on line and remain predictable in almost all weather conditions.

Overall, I think it is possible to develop a game revolving around just fairway drivers and putters, but it is my personal opinion that my midrange game is one of the major reasons i have imporved as much as i have over the past year or so (paired with all the help and advice i have received on this board)

i am not, nor have i ever claimed to be, a top pro or an expert in any way on the sport, but i can speak from my own experiences, and thats all i have to offer here

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Postby matt » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:41 pm

i understand ur philosophy on throwing with similar form and power across the chart. in my exp a gazelle or cheetah will handle wind much better than a roc, especially if u have to put some juice on it. a leopard has a completely different lip altogether. midranges seem to be more of a luxury than a necessity. u can putt with a midrange but its not as accurate and u risk 30' runs past the basket, u can approach with a putter and its more accurate, u can midrange with a putter and it will drop much straighter. im still convinced a mid range is over rated.
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Postby jamsisjams » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:46 pm

I like midranges because I can still play the skip with them in situations with low ceilings, plus everything else good said about them, as well as my comfort level with the grips of mids.
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Postby matt » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:59 pm

ive played with alot of midranges and the shark seemed to be the most accurate. rocs are good if u crank them but the fade kills the point of having a disc that floats straight into the basket from 200-250'. ive only been playin like a year now but im thinkin better throwers gravitate away from gunnin the mid- range over-stable discs and prefer controlled straight stability. rocs can fade pretty hard and if u do crank them u open up the door for them to turn 'n burn.
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Postby jamsisjams » Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:04 pm

Only with OAT. I throw Wasps instead of Rocs and the only time I get them to turn over is when I'm at fault.
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Postby matt » Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:16 pm

yeah wasps, especially in z, dont flip easily but the flat top ones got some crash at the end instead of a softer glidey fall.
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Postby jamsisjams » Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:30 pm

Just rough 'em up a little bit; they'll come around.
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Postby Blake_T » Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:34 pm

even pros who can bomb rarely try to push mids out beyond 350'.

some rocs are more overstable than others, but most people prefer beat rocs when they don't want a hyzer finish at the end.

honestly though, if you think rocs are unpredictable into the wind, an aviar is even less predictable.

arguing for a cheetah or aviar over a roc on like a 250' hole with moderate wind or a 275' hole with mild wind just isn't sound disc selection.

i throw a ton of predators on throws in the 180-280' range but it's usually on a big high hyzer route where my intention is to take glide off the disc.

calling a midrange a luxury is like telling a golfer that his 4-8 irons are a luxury.
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Postby scoot_er » Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:54 pm

Hey give him a break he is from Illinois. They don't have pros (well at least in Chicago)


I must say better players use mids. I am the only guy I saw this year using no mids on my card.
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Postby matt » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:18 am

b dogg--

i use to play mad ball golf and i would say it would be more like chippin with a

9 iron instead of the wedge. if ur borderline pro then yeah u need 3-sw and

should know the 20 yard overlap b/w each loft angle but most folks should

probly play with less. guess this goes back to disc minimalism. i am a

minimalist and can smoke all the dudes i play with that have huge bags full of

discs. thanks for all the input though, maybe i will come back to the roc or

shark, who knows
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Postby Eric O » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:20 am

matt wrote:i can throw flat-top large diameter mids 350
hahaha... yeah, right

If that were anywhere near true you wouldn't have started this ill-informed topic.
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Postby matt » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:24 am

yeah i can. im just sayin i can throw a cheetah better than u can throw a roc young man.
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Postby Eric O » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:32 am

I very much doubt that...
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