midrange discs over-rated ??

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Postby matt » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:36 am

k mrs. doubtfire
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Postby Will Aubrey » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:13 am

I use a Flex Predator for most approach shots. But I will use a mid (Aurora) if I have to throw a straight approach shot. And sometimes if I need a pronounced right fade on a very short shot I will throw an Optimizer.
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Postby Blake_T » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:24 am

if threads degenerate this quickly seems almost like a waste of time for me to post.
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Postby Eric O » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:32 am

You have to admit, calling midranges as a whole overrated is kind of inflammatory to begin with. Especially to continue to do so after most of the reasons for their use have been well stated earlier in this topic.
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Postby Blake_T » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:44 am

yep.

i do admit.
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Postby scoot_er » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:56 am

Eric O wrote:
matt wrote:i can throw flat-top large diameter mids 350
hahaha... yeah, right

If that were anywhere near true you wouldn't have started this ill-informed topic.



I agree!

And Matt before you say anything, I can probably throw anything in my bag as well as you throw a Cheetah.
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Postby tumpsi » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:38 am

lol
Max Boss Teebird Roc Wizard
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Postby JR » Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:01 am

scoot_er wrote:
matt wrote:i hear alot of people talk about rippin rocs over 300' straight, but unless i hyzer- flip it and throw it high, its not gettin that kind of d; its just not fast enough. i do agree there def is a gap from putter to fairway driver for experienced throwers but the lips on the slower fairways like the gazelle, cheetah, viper, cyclone... fill the role of an overstable midrange better than a roc does imo. i just wish the viper was small diameter. the lip on the gator blows imo. and just to cross reference, there aint much difference b/w the putters and the midranges in terms of the lip and speed.


You probably don't have the arm to use a mid to its full potential. To get that arm though you need to throw Mids and putters.


OAT and disc weight may play a role too. My 179 dx Rancho Roc drops much much faster than my 171 and the 171 is brand new and the 179 is almost straight at low speeds but not flippy yet.

I'll muddy the waters a bit more. Personal differences and accustomization play a role too. I've got small hands and my hand is injured. Therefore I have trouble gripping and releasing tall discs cleanly the same goes for large beads and both together get even worse. Roc is manageable to me whereas Wizard is not with all the grip variations I have tried. Meaning I can get good flights out of Wizards but not repeatably.

Because Rocs are straight, slow, little LSS and wind resistant enough with my technique at all ranges except max D (too little training) the only throw I've found that I miss from putters is slow flying short annies that need to move a lot left to right. With possible ceiling to reduce the possibility of high anny lines with faster than putter discs. That's the reason I use my gummy QMS and if it won't work I'm taking out my Pred for a forehand throw or forehand skip throw.

Since I've had nice results with Roc putting and even better yesterday with my 171 out for the first time I don't really miss putters for anything than rare getting out of trouble throws at the most or super tight gap piercing that is way too late anyhow because you shouldn't put yourself into that kind of trouble where the diameter of the disc is significant to making the gap.

Edit: So are putters overrated? :-D Well not really. I realize I'm a weird exception. As always it seems. I seem to be a bit of a chameleon for whom every way seems to suit after a bit of practice as long as I get a good grip and concentrate on clean technique. I seem to get more margin of error with Rocs than putters at every range. Is that normal?

I seem to try everything out to find the best results for me. Current experience suggests that with the training I've had with different methods Roc putting to 90-95 % power throws are fine and Teebirds and Destroyers for the rest except on non windy days FLX Surge for long TB duty for control and almost the same distance as Destroyer and Pred for winds and funny shots.
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Postby rehder » Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:49 am

Hey Matt

I think the reason why people are reacting strongly is not that they wont acknowledge your preference for throwing the cheetas instead of rocs. If it works for you, Great. What they are objecting to is the general statement that there is no reason to carry a roc over a fairway driver. Below is what I expect 95% of ambitious discgolfers are in agreement upon.

A heavy roc will handle headwinds much better than a heavy cheetah (Especially the stronger the wind gets) (I was out in club vs club match last year. It was very windy (over 40mph) and raining heavily. I ended up using my new 180DX roc for a lot of headwind shots. And it would not turn over)
Most drivers have to be thrown fairly focused, You should be able to throw a roc with much less effort and still get it to go a ways because of the much better glide.
Its more forgiving and hence wont punish you as bad if you make a slight throwing error. (Which can be difference between having a putt or not)

Dont get me wrong I love my champ leopards. But they are two very different discs and are for two very different purposes.
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Postby Jager » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:11 am

scoot_er wrote:
Eric O wrote:
matt wrote:i can throw flat-top large diameter mids 350
hahaha... yeah, right

If that were anywhere near true you wouldn't have started this ill-informed topic.



I agree!

And Matt before you say anything, I can probably throw anything in my bag as well as you throw a Cheetah.


That's some funny chit.
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Postby SkaBob » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:53 am

If someone is claiming that Rocs have too much fade, they've obviously only thrown one a handful of times, since they obviously never got one to a beat-in state where the fade goes away, and thus really have no room to comment about their utility.

If someone, not throwing midranges, claims they can throw their mids 350 - especially after only a year of golf, we should all remember they're speaking in message board distance, not golf distance.

If someone suggests that good players move AWAY from using midranges, they haven't seen any pros play. I play regularly with a good many of Discraft's team, and every single one of them throws a mid or a putter unless it's a long (340+) hole, and the monster arms among them throw mids on those, too.

I think a good many of our newer posters need to be a good bit more humble about how good they are, how far they throw, and how severely they react to people who've been playing the sport for years giving them advice they disagree with. Just beacuse a mechanic thinks he's the best in the shop doesn't mean he shouldn't listen to the guy who's been there 25 years. In only a short year of play, you have no idea how much you just don't realize you just don't know about what you're talking about. If you disagree, that's fine, but don't get lippy about it, because chances are you're wrong.
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Postby Midnightbiker » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:09 am

Matt,
One thing I would ask you is how often to you hit the practice field. I have only been playing a year myself, and I now spend twice as much time at the practice field as I do actually playing.

The reason I bring this up is that is the best way to see what different disc can do for you. If you don't have a practice basket, use some other target (trash can, tree, traffic cone, ect) and mark off about 300 feet and see what different disc do for you. After lots of practice, I have found that I like to have 3 Midranges in my bag. An overstable, a stable, and a under-stable. That combination are my disc between my approach disc and my drivers. From lots of practice at the field, I realize that this works for me.

I say take all your disc, Mids and all, hit the practice field for a weekend, and see what the results are.
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Postby garublador » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:21 am

Blake_T wrote:if threads degenerate this quickly seems almost like a waste of time for me to post.
It only seems like people don't listen to you. I pretty much just copy what you say and people listen to me even less.
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Postby matt » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:03 pm

u know it is about style and not being a conformist. i know guys that approach with a forehand skip-shot monster and take peoples money all day. to me throwing a 180 midrange is boring. u throw it and it goes straight and low and drops, big deal. i like to watch a disc move around and glide. i aint all crazy about playin tournaments and crunching numbers when i play, i play for fun. i am still learning and if i feel the need i will reach for a shark probly. for the record i threw 350' with a 180 shark (my first disc) the first time i played. im naturally athletic and i work out bitches!
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Postby adidadg » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:12 pm

matt wrote:u know it is about style and not being a conformist. i know guys that approach with a forehand skip-shot monster and take peoples money all day. to me throwing a 180 midrange is boring. u throw it and it goes straight and low and drops, big deal.


IMO theres nothing better than watching a perfectly flat, dead straight shot, but thats just me.
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