Distance Myths Article

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Distance Myths Article

Postby Banzai » Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:55 pm

Expect plateaus in your golf distance. You will hit plateaus and generally break through them as each concept “clicks.” [...] The plateaus are approximately as follows: ~240', ~280', ~320', ~370'.


Here's a question. Which concepts are the ones that need to 'click' in order to break through each distance plateau?

I'm guessing the key to breaking through the ~320 is utilizing leg power?
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Postby black udder » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:09 pm

I'd guess 320 is nose down and 370 is going to be big snap.

You can harness leg power and rotational speed, but if you don't do the above two, then your returns will be diminished.
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Postby Blake_T » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:42 pm

370 = everything but big snap (= timing).

there's about 12 things in terms of body position and timing that you need to do to go 450'.

320' can be done doing like 2 of those 12.

below 370' it's really not a question how good your mechanics are, it's more of a matter of how "less crappy" your mechanics are.

poor grip = distance sink.
getting the disc too far from your body = distance sink.
not utilizing leg power = distance sink.
not getting weight forward = distance sink.
etc.

going from 370' to 450' is the hard part.
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Postby IowaDiscGolf » Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:25 pm

I lay awake every night wondering why when I try to throw my discs on open holes, they don't travel very far. I throw low to maximize the flight, but I see "big D" players throwing orders of magnitude higher. When I throw higher, it only stalls quicker, so it's high AND weak...the two attributes I detest in a throw.

To be honest, this lack of any D does not affect my scoring significantly...I can shoot a great score without impressive distance. It'd be nice, though, to not be approaching from a hundred feet out of the other guy.
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Re: Distance Myths Article

Postby BarrabusTheDiscGolfGnome » Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:21 pm

Blake

You mentioned 12 things are necessary in order to reach 450. I believe you listed four. I am a LONG way from 450 but I would really like a list of those 12 things (maybe in the order they should be developed through practice) and perhaps a brief description of each. I know you're a busy guy but this would be nice for a ton of people on the forum I would suspect.
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Re: Distance Myths Article

Postby black udder » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:16 am

haha...good luck getting that list :P

To some degree, it's a waste of time. He's mentioned all the the stuff you need to do in the articles and we discuss it ad nauseum here, but until you understand the concepts and the points, seeing them won't help you. It's weird. I've been throwing for over 5 years and just this year it 'clicked'. Before, no matter how much I looked and talked and what not, nothing improved my form, my distance or my knowledge. Then one day, it all clicked and now I can't understand how it didn't make perfect sense. Once you understand the concept, then you can sort of see a bunch of things that would be necessary in order to achieve 450'+, and some of them are only going to be for the athletic since they require great timing or the natural gift of body flexibility or arm speed.

The thing that helped me was getting some 1x1 coaching and then watching what they did and asking questions about just about everything they did - then trying to replicate it. That made me look at what was happening and allowed it to click for me.
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Re: Distance Myths Article

Postby felixtibs » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:01 am

Well, I have struggled with distance for a while. I came in gung ho, got my discs all polished up, posted videos, and actually saw an increase in performance. I can throw from a standstill 270-300' consistently. Getting past this distance has been tough, mainly because my X step usually involves me losing my control over the throw.

Practice in a field everyday if you can, you will see the difference. Relaxing helps more than stressing, as the disc flies just as far if arent clenching up and is much less harsh on your body.
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Re: Distance Myths Article

Postby bcsst26 » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:08 pm

Learn how to throw from a standstill and work from there. I skipped this for a while but once my x step stopped giving me more distance I went back to this. It is amazing how far you can throw from a standstill and the accuracy one can get. Getting this down and understanding what is going on will help out a lot.
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Re: Distance Myths Article

Postby Blake_T » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:43 pm

360' is cake.

you don't need spectacular form to get 360'.

if you aren't getting 340', there's something in your form that is fundamentally wrong.

going 450' requires like 7 body positions and 6 timing variables.

going 360' requires like 4 body positions and 2 timing variables.

going 330' requires like 3 body positions and 2 timing variables.

270' generally is indicative of 3 or less body positions, and 1 or less timing variables.

slow motion video and freeze frames are only useful for body positions. it takes a very keen eye to see timing variables, mainly because you have to know what you are looking for and most don't. this is why i constantly talk about looking at the similarities in pros forms.

seriously though, if people can't name at least 5 of the 7 body positions, they haven't been trying very hard. they're nothing special. if you go 350' chances are you have 1-5.

1. disc close to body during pull
2. weight forward at release (this gets the nose down)
3. shoulder rotation from away to forwards
4. hip rotation from closed to open
5. foot pivot
6. wrist extension
7. disc leaves from out in front of you

only timing variable i'll name is don't strong arm it.
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Re: Distance Myths Article

Postby black udder » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:55 pm

felixtibs wrote:Well, I have struggled with distance for a while. I came in gung ho, got my discs all polished up, posted videos, and actually saw an increase in performance. I can throw from a standstill 270-300' consistently. Getting past this distance has been tough, mainly because my X step usually involves me losing my control over the throw.

Practice in a field everyday if you can, you will see the difference. Relaxing helps more than stressing, as the disc flies just as far if arent clenching up and is much less harsh on your body.


I'd second this. Too many folks use the x-step without realizing what it adds to their throw. I found that when I used an x-step, I was stopping at my reach back with all my weight back and then transfering my weight forwards when I planted. The problem was everything came to a halt at the reach back - sort of like when you throw a ball in the air and at it's apex it stops. I was stopping half-way through my x-step. I've been working on it and have found a way to keep my momentum all the way through the x-step and it helps a lot. When I get it right, I get significant extra distance. The problem is that like felix, I tend to lose some of my form with the x-step (too much to focus on) and I don't pull as close to my body and get a slight swoop and nose up in my throw.

What helps you get that distance is increasing your power from the bottom up and your rotational speed. That'll help increase your arm speed some. Then it's just a matter of keeping that disc in tight to your chest the whole way through. If you're relaxed you'll get the "whip" motion. If you're tense or pulling with your arm from the reach back all the way through, then you just don't get the whipping motion, you get a throw.
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Re: Distance Myths Article

Postby Blake_T » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:25 pm

building from the hit back ensures footwork is meaningful.

What helps you get that distance is increasing your power from the bottom up and your rotational speed. That'll help increase your arm speed some.


arm speed is over-rated. the most important thing is that your arm is always moving faster than it was at a previous point.
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Re: Distance Myths Article

Postby black udder » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:51 pm

Blake_T wrote:building from the hit back ensures footwork is meaningful.

What helps you get that distance is increasing your power from the bottom up and your rotational speed. That'll help increase your arm speed some.


arm speed is over-rated. the most important thing is that your arm is always moving faster than it was at a previous point.


Correct me if I'm wrong here (Blake). The intent of what you quoted from me is that if you use your hips and torso to rotate your arm speed will be faster than if you just pull your arm and not rotate your hips & torso.

I don't know what the best terminology would be for that action, but that "force" feels much more powerful.
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Re: Distance Myths Article

Postby Blake_T » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:47 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong here (Blake). The intent of what you quoted from me is that if you use your hips and torso to rotate your arm speed will be faster than if you just pull your arm and not rotate your hips & torso.

I don't know what the best terminology would be for that action, but that "force" feels much more powerful.


it's part of a kinetic chain. its focus is not on raw speed, but on focused power and certain things that happen with uncoiling of the body, etc.
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Re: Distance Myths Article

Postby black udder » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:54 pm

Blake_T wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong here (Blake). The intent of what you quoted from me is that if you use your hips and torso to rotate your arm speed will be faster than if you just pull your arm and not rotate your hips & torso.

I don't know what the best terminology would be for that action, but that "force" feels much more powerful.


it's part of a kinetic chain. its focus is not on raw speed, but on focused power and certain things that happen with uncoiling of the body, etc.


So I have the right idea, just the wrong words, yes? :)
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Re: Distance Myths Article

Postby Blake_T » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:34 pm

wrong concept.

any time someone references arm-speed and doesn't limit it to "at the hit" the mentality is all wrong.
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