LYang Form Analysis

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LYang Form Analysis

Postby LYang » Mon May 07, 2012 8:09 pm

Been playing for less than 1.5 years. I've spent a lot of time reading, throwing, (reading, throwing, reading, throwing) and trying to understand the concepts throughout this forum. I've tried many different things and realized many different things. Consequently, my search for distance and my constant changes shows with my inconsistency. However, I have slowly been gaining distance; I'm currently hitting my Teebirds anywhere from 330' - 375'... accuracy is definitely a big issue.





Before my recent knee "injury" (http://discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=24472), I was focusing my attention on one-step drives, so I'm still trying to get a feel for x-stepping. Following through/pivoting seems easier with x-step, so I'll stick to that in fear of serious injury.
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Re: LYang Form Analysis

Postby seabas22 » Mon May 07, 2012 11:54 pm

I'm not sure what you were throwing on what lines, but in general the throws seem to lack rhythm. A Feldy type pre-swing and Brinster hop may help with that among some other things. I don't know if it's due to your bowed legs, but you aren't keeping your weight on the insides of the feet, and pushing off the rear heel instead of using plantar flexion to drive the rear knee and hip. That all leads to the spine axis not rotating around tightly(braced tilt and tilted spiral vids apply here). Your pull through and release look relatively high, and the x-step is a bit deep or long as is the plant. FWIW I prefer to practice on concrete for better pivot. Grass seems to inhibit the pivot sometimes and is less consistent for learning sake.
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Re: LYang Form Analysis

Postby JR » Tue May 08, 2012 1:17 am

At this point with health issues in play keeping that moderate speed is great for learning the mechanics of the throw and crucial for not aggravating your knee worse. Like anything new or repetitive too much practice will strain the body. Taking it easy and limiting the length of the sessions and if needed reducing the amount of practice could help.

Mechanics wise you could also push the elbow more forward before you straighten the elbow for a more explosive acceleration. You don't twist the hips to the right of neutral at all and the same for turning the shoulders even farther right than the hips. That eliminates two large power sources. Both of which are stronger than the arm.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: LYang Form Analysis

Postby LYang » Tue May 08, 2012 1:23 pm

seabas22 wrote:I'm not sure what you were throwing on what lines, but in general the throws seem to lack rhythm. A Feldy type pre-swing and Brinster hop may help with that among some other things. I don't know if it's due to your bowed legs, but you aren't keeping your weight on the insides of the feet, and pushing off the rear heel instead of using plantar flexion to drive the rear knee and hip. That all leads to the spine axis not rotating around tightly(braced tilt and tilted spiral vids apply here). Your pull through and release look relatively high, and the x-step is a bit deep or long as is the plant. FWIW I prefer to practice on concrete for better pivot. Grass seems to inhibit the pivot sometimes and is less consistent for learning sake.


Teebirds -- attempting to throw straight/flat.

My feet are definitely more outside weighted. I've noticed that prior when I focused on one-step throws where when I pivoted my weight would often end up on the outside of the foot.

Those throws were definitely awkward feeling. My weight felt backwards after throwing. I think I was trying to be very light on my feet and apprehensive of bracing hard?

Also, what do you mean x-step/plant is "deep or long"? Stepping too firmly? Long steps?

Thanks for the critique. I have a lot to work on. I'll definitely try and practice on concrete ...or dry dirt area?

JR wrote:Mechanics wise you could also push the elbow more forward before you straighten the elbow for a more explosive acceleration. You don't twist the hips to the right of neutral at all and the same for turning the shoulders even farther right than the hips. That eliminates two large power sources. Both of which are stronger than the arm.


This is where my understanding of the throw collapses??
Hips turn from closed (body 180 away from target) to neutral (body 90 away from target)
Pause or slow down to allow elbow to move forward, stop, and forearm to begin to chop.
Accelerate arm and shoulders which in turn causes hips and foot pivot.

I can't see pausing at neutral and then twisting more? or twisting should be past neutral?? I'm lost.

Thanks.
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Re: LYang Form Analysis

Postby seabas22 » Tue May 08, 2012 8:17 pm

Yeah, you look apprehensive toward bracing and I don't blame you since you are on a grass field. Dirt is fine. It's just grass tends to not have totally flat ground and jam a pivot. That is partly how I fractured my tibia. Your steps are too long and not accelerating. Watch how shorter the x-step of these guys below is and how they pivot away going to the plant, also watch how backwards your rear foot is compared to them. It's hard to leverage the hip from the rear foot facing that direction. Once you get the tilted bracing you can relax your arm into the power zone and then accelerate the arm out. It's basically what JR is talking about with the hips and shoulders. You are turning away, but trying to maximize your rotation speed before the brace and pulling early. It should be brace, let the arm come into the power zone and then throw.

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Re: LYang Form Analysis

Postby JR » Wed May 09, 2012 1:54 am

Wording it differently in case it helps. When you are at the maximum point of reach back with the disc farthest away from the target your back and heels point at the target. When the plant step has landed you push with the left leg so that your torso will face 90 degrees left of the target. You may or may not want to move the arm at all relative to the body until this point. The hips were twisted a little left at the reach back and coming to the 90 degrees left torso facing position the hips have incidentally twisted back to neutral. Notice where your disc is now if you locked the arm relative to the body. It varies based on the anatomy of the people but it is somewhere around the left side (front of the disc that is). So far the push of the left leg has been very mild basically just a step being taken so the muscles are loose and haven't worked a lot. That remains so for the time when the torso and shoulders (neutral) face 90 degrees left of the target. Here you need to start to move the arm from the shoulder and the elbow moving both toward the target so that the disc moves across the chest so that the beginning is from the left side until the disc front edge is beyond the right side closer to the target. AKA the right pec position.

Only now will the left leg fire hard and fast concentrating on moving supafast, with the hips twisting supafast right followed by the shoulders turning then the elbow straightening, the wrist trying to be bent back (resist that) and then the wrist flying open passively to which you can add muscle power then the wrist stopping and the disc starting the pivot and the index finger and the thumb clamping down haaaaard. >Kaboom!

Note that there are other ways of throwing increasing comfort and muscle looseness and different timings of putting on full power. Because people have different distributions of muscle power,muscle speed and nervous system speeds it varies according to the individual which combo of a multitude of factors across different forms works best for you. The form i described above is the standard DGR advice for controlled power for accurate on course golf distance. Maximum distance techniques exist that are very different and some people claim to have better results with them. For accuracy too. These players tend to be experienced well practiced with many throws under the belt. And with a lot of physical prowess. YMMV.

Have you checked out a running specialist with measurement gear to produce insoles custom made to help your legs? They cost a lot but it is nothing compared to injuring yourself. On top of the health benefits they should make you a better athlete and allow you to throw better and train better speeding up your development as a thrower.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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